Where One Avatar Commits Suicide And Another One Is Killed

It was scheduled as Wirxli Flimflam’s last performance but the judges where already present with the verdict in their pocket to make it also my last performance in CARP.

What happend?

The night before the performance a friend was abused by Pirats group and was really unhappy about that. She also saw those Pirats at Oberon Onmura’s exhibition and I promised her to ask them who they fucking think they are. I went there screaming but they didn’t react so my friend was asking: are you taking pictures? And that give me the idea to film them. To make a movie like that I took at least 45 minutes of filming, they didn’t seem to bother, didn’t walked away or TP-ed out. They just stick to their usual coucou and Yay yay. I even invite my friend Dan Yapungku so I could stand on his head, to have good shots of Newbab Zsigsmond who was dancing on top of Merlina Rokocoko.

The next morning I put the movie online and received enthusiast comments from Iono Allen, Pol Jarvinen, Penelope Parx, Luce Laval and Rose Borchovski. Never had so much positive feedback that quick until…..Josina Burgess came online. She was really pissed off about the movie because Thirza Ember left the Diabolus group because of the movie.  (use translator dutch english for some parts)

Josina Burgess: Thirza Ember: (Saved Sun Feb 14 15:15:25 2010) Josina, I saw the last notice ‘Touche Pas’   because of this I am leaving your group  Diabolus. That is not ‘performance’ it is abusive behaviour, so I do not want any part of it. not at all.

SaveMe Oh: heel goed

SaveMe Oh: als virtuele werelden onder iemands huid kruipen begint het echt te worden

Josina Burgess: je moet hier dus meteen mee ophouden, op deze manier beschadig je de groep en gooi ik je eruit

SaveMe Oh: Als jij tot het legertje van de censors wilt toetreden kan ik je niet tegenhouden

SaveMe Oh: gisteren had ik iemand zeer ontdaan in IM om wat de Pirats deden

SaveMe Oh: het virtuele leven is soms lastig

SaveMe Oh: je zou je eigen positie bij de Pirats eens goed tegen het licht moeten houden

SaveMe Oh: heb je gezien hoe ze rondstappen met hun zwarte armbanden?

Josina Burgess: interesseert me totaal niet, als jij via stomme video’s probeert mensen te raken op een gemene manier en dat doet op zo’n manier dat ik constant, en niet alleen nu! gedoe heb over en door jou, terwijl wij ons best doen een goeie groep te maken en te houden begin ik het zo langzamerhand moe te worden, constant  jou te moeten verdedigen,  ik ben het zat om iedere keer opnieuw aangesproken te worden op jou gedrag wat ik trouwens behoorlijk kinderachtig vind, dit heeft niks meer met kunst of wat dan ook, maar met rancune van een zekere avatar save me oh. Ik zal hier met Vela over spreken en ik kan je wel zeggen dat ik er genoeg van heb.

SaveMe Oh: ok, ik hoor het oordeel wel. Ik heb nog nooit zoveel positieve reacties op een video gehad maar als jij je ogen wilt sluiten moet je dat doen.

As Josina has good contacts with the Pirats she soon had contact with Newbab and he already had summoned her to do something about it and she did. She told me she was in the mood to kick me out of CARP but still had to talk with Velazquez Bonetto. She was only nice enough to wait until Wirxli Flimflam was dead and also Velazquez didn’t say a word although he knew he would ban me a few hours after. 

Next day all CARP members received this message, most of them before me:

Hello Saveme,

Already a long time we as CARP/Diabolus are defending freedom of speech and freedom to express and exhibit Art in a confronting way.We believe that artists of all sorts must have the possibility to use the Art as a tool to create awareness, make people think and wonder, and express this through Art.Art was through history always an item that created openings and discussions and not only serving the beauty and the wonderful. Art can be a messenger, a clown, a mirror, a caricature of all whats happening in the world.When however an artist is using Art as a coveridge for personal revenge and starts trying to hurt and embarras people in a almost stalking way, the Art itsself is offended.

 As a response on the last video you made and also in response of the many other occasions where we as founders of the CARP/Diabolus group were confronted with complains and questions about your behaviour, we decided that we have to react.

We discussed this many times with you and every time you seemed to just love the negative attention and even did a further step to see what happens and how far you could go. Not only you used openings of other artists to get negative attention on your avatar, you also went to annoy other guests that you disliked that moment, you exhibitioned projects that were directly attacking groups of people or cultures in such a hatefull way that we had to remove certain items. You did not learn from it, but continued with your solo actions that could not stay solo because many others got involved in these actions even when they were never asking for it.

 You finally reached the limit and we decided the following:

1.You have to remove the hatefull and vindictive video you made about Pirats.

2.We expect a apology for this video.

3.You will be disrupted from CARP/Diabolus for 3 months, you will not be able to rez, or have any exhibitions on Diabolus, with the warning that when you come back you have to behave as a human being and put your personal vendetta’s aside.

 We respect your talent and we also know you from other conversations as a much nicer person in RL that uses the avatar Saveme Oh as a total transformation into something different from your RL personallity. You are totally free in doing so, but also in SL real humans are behind every avatar and they can be offended and get hurt. Through your actions we as CARP/Diabolus dont want to take the stand as your defenders anymore, because you lost your credibility.

 We hope to have reached with this deciding a opening for better communication and understanding and surely are not trying to push you into more negative and vindictive actions.

 Josina Burgess/Josina den Burger

Velazquez Bonetto/ Laszlo Oerdoegh

CARP/Diabolus founders

Some comments in Diablus Ning group:

Debbie Trilling: I know this was a hard decision for both Vela and yourself, Josina, and has taken many months of discussion and “second chances” before you finally arrived at it. I know from our group discussions on this matter that neither of you took the decision lightly, nor does it bring either of you any joy. However, it is the correct decision.

This avatar’s behaviour and attitude to others’ hard work has caused far too many upsets and complaints to operate successfully in any group or within any project which requires collaboration. As CARP projects are essentially collaborative efforts, this group is clearly not the group that can provide this avatar with the correct environment to work within.

Perhaps an enforced hiatus of three months might provide a suitable readjustment period. Perhaps not.

Josina den Burger: thanks Debbie, it was not with great pleasure to decide, but you know us very well already and I am grateful you support this.

Wiski oh: He he he… SaveMe needs some good spanking, for sure. Sister, you had been a bad bad girl… And brother Wiski will spank youuuuuuuuuuu…. Come come little darling… Im gonna save your soul, in the name of cheessusssssssssssss… Whip, whipppp… ;-)Argh, what had you done again, terrific sister ? Ho lord, save me for Saveme !!!!

Calimera Lane: Well, Vela and Josy.. you wanted her, now you got her.

I dont exactly see a big difference in that pirats movie compared to what she has produced before.
Its all an expression of frustration and lament, n’importe where you look, at her blog or whatever media she spams. She has expressed her laments in a most destructive, disrespectful way all the time. Targetting something one personally also dont like–as for her puns on US american puritanism–makes no difference to it.

HP Darcy: Well, well, let’s not going to exaggerate. First SaveMe was carried on the shoulders of everybody, but when ‘people’ complain, then there are penalties or punishment. First the CARP members, including the founders love it, until ‘others’ tell them they shouldn’t.

And those ‘others’ are in my opinion – unfortunately – very short sighted. They have no sense for some good fun and humor, apparently they cannot see the irony in the work of SaveMe. Too soon they feel hurt, or are just jealous in an ordinary way. So what do they do? They begin to manipulate and actually they are the ones who start the fighting. Why not turn the head and walk simply away and stop the fuzz? Can’t you leave the things who don’t appeal to you alone or am I the one who is crazy?

If there is one person trying to tell honestly her opinion, it is SaveMe Oh. And she takes fully the responsibility for that. I do not understand why honesty should be punished in this way. It should not be her problem if people can’t accept the truth. The (Pi)Rats must get used to the fact that there are individuals who don’t want to be considered part of their inner circle. We are not just mindless sheep following each other.

I think the action should be reversed because no rules have been violated! Look at RL, take a look at the Civil Code. Shouldn’t you laugh out loud when an individual was excluded for having an honest sincere own opinion about certain people. There is really nothing forbidden about it and no judge would convict somebody for that, but in CARP they think they have to? Something is wrong here.

Josina Burgess: HP you are right in much what you are saying, and We stood behind Save me for along time, as long (and I repeat) it is in a humorfull way and is not getting “personal” and really trying to damage or hurt. This is NOT about Pirats, although the last video did it, and its NOT because what öther”peole said. Its what we saw and experienced with our own eyes and ears. We never act from second hand information, but acted out of what we experienced ourselves by the behaviour of SaveMe during openings, in video’s and towards other people in SL. When you seed, you earn. SaveMe knows this and its never can be so that you can do and shout whatever you like without getting a response at some point.

Debbie Trilling: Comment by HP Darcy: “If there is one person trying to tell honestly her opinion, it is SaveMe Oh. And she takes fully the responsibility for that

If she truely takes “full responsibilty”, as you say, then she will see this decision as a direct consequence of her “honest opinons” (sic) and behaviour. As part of her “work”, SaveMe courts controversy and provocation. She actively seeks to be banned and I have even heard a supporter asking her, “Haven’t CARP banned you yet, SaveMe?” as if it is a Badge of Honor.

This decision by CARP is a logical and predictable consequence of her actions; ‘Reaping what you sow’, as Josina has pointed out a number of times. Take responsibilty for that.

Comment by HP Darcy: “There is really nothing forbidden about it and no judge would convict somebody for that, but in CARP they think they have to? Something is wrong here


This is not a Court of Law or anything like it.

This is about deciding who shares similar values/aims and who doesn’t; deciding who one wants to work with and who one does not; deciding who to freely donate prims to, land and exhibition space to, time and resources to and who one doesn’t care to; who one wants to spend their leisure time with and who one does’nt; who one respects and who one doesn’t; who has credibility and who doesn’t.

Everybody has the individual right to make these decisions and act upon them as they see fit.

In this instance, it was decided that SaveMe is not a person the group shares these things with.

The thing that is “wrong here” is not the decision made by an SL group but your illogical comparison with a Court of Law,

Calimera Lane: Re Josina: “We stood behind Save me for along time, as long (and I repeat) it is in a humorfull way and is not getting “personal” and really trying to damage or hurt.”

Humour is something difficult to define. If you had a presentation on your latest visuals and I would show up and attach all effect sets I have made so that people dont see yours anymore, would you call that humorous? Imagine a concert was given and I would show up playing all sounds I could find in my inventory. Would you call that humorous? Given theres a discussion event that operates via text chat and I would pop up and take over the chat with cuckoos and fuckyous. Would you call that humorous? Especially when its done to debunk “false art” and to expose herself as a “true artist”.

I’m with Debbie. Saveme Oh does not take responsability for her actions at all. Her self-righteous blog from its very beginning in pre carp membership times is one big lament about unjust bans and nazi sim dictators.
She has been carrying out personal vendettas not only with DanCoyote Antonelli long before carp invited her to join.

Let me ask you, Josina–and I truely am curious–what made you think you would change her?

Let me add this. I have been absent from SL almost all 2009. Rumours over stress within carp triggered by saveme oh reached me only via my flatmate’s news from SL. I haven’t ever criticized Velas decision to invite her. Just wondered whether she will succeed to fuck this up also, the very climax of the drama she cultivates.

I understand this has caused much stress to both Velazquez and Josina. Therefore I do well understand their reaction. A selforganized system either integrates or eliminates disruption.

They don’t deserve this kind of shit, Saveme.

Was this the first time the CARPIES had problems with my attitude??? No. Read this. (when they were still defending me)

[Velazquez Bonetto: [14:38] Medora Chevalier: Hi Vela – people are hassling me about SaveMe Oh’s work at Diabolus – she got banned from one of the festival sims last night because its PG and she turned up with a fuckme attachment

Velazquez Bonetto: ???????????

SaveMe Oh: ah good publicity

Velazquez Bonetto: [14:39] Medora Chevalier: now people are saying her work is a breach of terms of service

Medora Chevalier: and not a poisitive imagining (well I agree with that one – but that’s bloody artists for you!)

Velazquez Bonetto: behhh

Josina Burgess: yes save me was banned from a american sim becouse her guys were wearing a t-shirt with fuck U on it

Josina Burgess: hypocrits

SaveMe Oh: you want to see what i wered?

Josina Burgess: ok

SaveMe Oh: how bad it was?

Josina Burgess: show

Josina Burgess: olol

SaveMe Oh: you must be shocked

Josina Burgess: pretty harsh yes

Josina Burgess: for american puritan eyes

SaveMe Oh: I hope we dont have to take that american puriteins in our future

SaveMe Oh: the centre work will also be at the edge

Velazquez Bonetto: neocreationist ultraright GWBUSH brains

Josina Burgess: lol

Josina Burgess: whats the message save me

Josina Burgess: beside fuck u

SaveMe Oh: of these dolls?

Josina Burgess: yes

SaveMe Oh: fuck you

Josina Burgess: hahahahahahaaa

SaveMe Oh: lol

SaveMe Oh: an act of love?

Josina Burgess: and of course they were shocked

SaveMe Oh: i dont know

SaveMe Oh: they asked me to remove it

Josina Burgess: and of course you did not

Josina Burgess: so drama began

SaveMe Oh: ofcourse not

Velazquez Bonetto: hahahah

SaveMe Oh: i entered a sec time after being banned

SaveMe Oh: with the monks

Josina Burgess: still wearing it/

Josina Burgess: ahhhh lol

SaveMe Oh: that time it was my discusiion that get me banned

Josina Burgess: and also the monks were no good?

SaveMe Oh: discussion about freedom of speech

SaveMe Oh: https://savemeoh.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/imagine-festival-overcrowded-with-security/

Josina Burgess: yes

Sicily Zapatero: Can I say something?

Velazquez Bonetto: yes sicily

Sicily Zapatero: Could we please not generalize about nationality.

Sicily Zapatero: It is individuals who have opinions.

Sicily Zapatero: It’s hurtful to me.

Sicily Zapatero: Please..

Velazquez Bonetto: ok sorry

Sicily Zapatero: I try never to judge never.

SaveMe Oh: i love to judge

Sicily Zapatero: And that is fine….

Sicily Zapatero: It is your right..

SaveMe Oh: its all about awareness

SaveMe Oh: not about right or wrong

Sicily Zapatero: No worries.

Velazquez Bonetto: :-)))))

SaveMe Oh: ofcourse, a lot of worries

SaveMe Oh: but thats why we do this

SaveMe Oh: stimulate the grey cells

SaveMe Oh: and hope something good comes out

Josina Burgess: IT IS OF COURSE YOUR WAY OF DOING THINGS. i also do understand them. they were and stayed polite, and yuo really came there at a opening with trying to shock in mind

SaveMe Oh: the last is not true

Josina Burgess: what means OPG sim?

SaveMe Oh: i just came with what i was busy

Josina Burgess: PG

Josina Burgess: that its open for children?

SaveMe Oh: I have no problem children read fuck

SaveMe Oh: is a normal word

Sicily Zapatero: Ah, Save me…I must b honest…..Not for children.

SaveMe Oh: its a much used word and people should explain that to their children then

Josina Burgess: neither do i, they read that on the street all the time, but i can understand that the explicit way you set up the figures made them react

Sicily Zapatero: Remember…I am a teacher of young children…

Sicily Zapatero: They have a very very tender souls.

SaveMe Oh: yes, but then you should be with them behind the pc

Josina Burgess: but what was the rest of the conversation about, you say you came then as a nu with the monks

Josina Burgess: whats wrongwith that

SaveMe Oh: yes

Josina Burgess: you changed as they asked

SaveMe Oh: nothing was wrong with that

SaveMe Oh: but then it was the conversation who annoyed them

Josina Burgess: there THEY went wrong

SaveMe Oh: i should shut up

Josina Burgess: thet=y asked you nicely to remove and change

Josina Burgess: you did

Sicily Zapatero: I was not there so, I don’t kow.

Sicily Zapatero: know

Josina Burgess: and theh it was again not good enough

SaveMe Oh: i took long before i did, lol

SaveMe Oh: i teased them ofcourse

Josina Burgess: ahhhhhhhhhhhhh you were pestering

Josina Burgess: sure yes

SaveMe Oh: not only image challenge the mind, also the talk

Josina Burgess: in fact you could expect it

Josina Burgess: so no reason to be upset

SaveMe Oh: people think only a prim can be an artwork, but also writing and thinking can be considered like that

Velazquez Bonetto: [14:54] Medora Chevalier: well it was just obvious that if you go to an area which is not supposed to have anything unsuitable for younfg students wearing people fucking you back and front you probably arent looking for a quiet life

SaveMe Oh: she is right

Velazquez Bonetto: i know yet what is PG

Josina Burgess: she is

SaveMe Oh: im not looking for a quiet life

Josina Burgess: what is PG?

Velazquez Bonetto: they banned also the LOUVRE is paris

Sicily Zapatero: Parental Guidance

Josina Burgess: ah ok

SaveMe Oh: its a fight against Linden ofcourse too

SaveMe Oh: owners who try to direct what oters can do or not

Josina Burgess: well seems you have to live after some RULES when you enter a place like that

Josina Burgess: and when you dont want you dont go there

SaveMe Oh: i accept being banned

Josina Burgess: yes

SaveMe Oh: happens to me all the time

SaveMe Oh: I know that it will happen

SaveMe Oh: but sometimes that has to be the toll being paid

Josina Burgess: still you gaved them something to talk about and that was why it is good also

SaveMe Oh: thats the thing

Velazquez Bonetto: ok i know the solution

SaveMe Oh: art is to being talked about

SaveMe Oh: otherwise is bad art

Josina Burgess: i am curious if you had come with a guy that stebs you with a knife in the heart

SaveMe Oh: the solution is to tie me up with something in my mouth

Josina Burgess: and you are like bleeding all over

SaveMe Oh: violence they wouldnt mind

Velazquez Bonetto: if we decide that saveme dance in the first scene with the group tha ni swith in the sim the aging verification switch on

Velazquez Bonetto: and then no problem

Josina Burgess: as soon its about something that has a reference with sex

SaveMe Oh: they get paranoid

Josina Burgess: everybody is eek and aww

SaveMe Oh: and keep on singign about love

Josina Burgess: lol

Josina Burgess: ok well done with that

Josina Burgess: lets go on rehearsing

 Velazquez Bonetto: [14:59] Medora Chevalier: no one has spoken to you about her work being against the LL terms?

Velazquez Bonetto: i read the community standard of course

Velazquez Bonetto: but from this point of view we can close the LOUVRE in Paris

Medora Chevalier: exactly

Where they never angry before???? Yes, ofcourse. Read this and use your translator Dutch – English

Josina Burgess: wil je stoppen met Igor zo vreselijk te treiteren

Josina Burgess: ik vind echt dat je af en toe niet meer leuk bent zo, humor is ok maar treiteren gaat te ver

Josina Burgess: daarbij is het nogal kinderachtig vind je niet

SaveMe Oh: stel je niet aan

Josina Burgess: je hebt geen idee wat je aan het doen bent nu, ook niet wie of wat voor persoon Igor is

Josina Burgess: ik snel me niet aan maar sta me kwaad te maken

SaveMe Oh: ik heb een hele verhandeling van hem gehad, ook niet ok

Josina Burgess: dit is mijn tentoonstelling en ik wil dat het leuk is

Josina Burgess: niet dat jij vervelend gaat lopen doen ten koste van iemand

Josina Burgess: doe maar op je eigen tentoonstelling

Josina Burgess: ik kan nu helemaal niet genieten


I just can say, stop defending me. I am quite able to do that myself.

5 thoughts on “Where One Avatar Commits Suicide And Another One Is Killed

  1. Zeer voorspelbare ontwikkelingen Save. Ik neem aan dat je er zelf minder van onder de indruk bent dan ik. Ik vind het jammer. Echter jij moet gewoon weer verder: niets nieuws onder de zon.

    Trouwens, films kun je overal maken. Maar vrienden,….

  2. CARP a collaboration…!?
    Decisions concerning the whole are made inside an elite group, leaving the rest in the dark and powerless. That is fine for the kind of people who like to be sheep, (and indeed carp has great use for such people who will jump from pose ball to pose ball to see their name on the screen) but it is NOT a collaboration.
    Suggestions are asked for but rarely taken seriously. Projects are never discussed with the whole group, only with a select few. The rest are called in for tasks only – but the control is not shared. No one is empowered.
    Claiming to be a collaboration is misinformation. It’s a joke. CARP functions according to a very strict hierarchy. Best be honest about that and avoid confusion.

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